Burning Books

[Goldenmane]

I've always been a little opposed to burning books, but it occurs to me that this is a ridiculous stance in this age. Perhaps it always has been.

Burning books is symbolic magic, if the intent is to destroy the ideas contained in said book. That's fucking ridiculous. We've gone beyond that. I find myself unwilling to burn any of the books in my possession, but I count such tomes (for some reason) as being high-cost. I worked fucking hard to get them.

Except I didn't. Most of them, or at least many of them, I could replace with a visit to a second-hand book shop. Especially shite like a Bible.

I do have a few rare books, but if it comes down to me surviving (and, having read said books, perpetuating the ideas therein) versus me dying of cold, I'll burn the fuckers.

I don't do polls, and I'm drunk and tired, so the question, I guess, is: When do you burn books?

[natselrox]

I tore my history book into million pieces after my tryst with history was over!!

[TheLilacPilgrim]

I can't bring myself to deliberately damage books. Books have always been incredibly important to me.

Though I once ripped the first chapter out of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. In my sleep. I have no idea how that even happened.

[Red_Nucleus]

I can't even bring myself to write notes in the margins of mine. At least, I couldn't until I'd read TGD a few times and I'd underlined a few pertinent facts and made some relevant notes of my own, in the ever so unreal hope that I'll get one of my parents (both believing xians) to read it one day. My other half used the fine leaf from one of his KJV's as paper for rollies - at the time I was horrifed, thinking 'Destruction of a book - Sacrilige!' Then I realised what book he was using and wondered -' why do I care again? Oh, that's right, I don't.'

[HenryFord]

There seem to be a number of people who get a funny on when the idea of burning books is presented. In the past, obviously this would have been a terrible thing causing the suppresion of knowledge, ideas and ideologies that a book burning mob hated. However that's very unlikely to occur today (unless someone got hold of an original manuscript that hadn't been electronicaly copied in any way, or if society as we know it were to radicaly collapse). So the only thing I can imagine is that bibliophiles somehow consider books to be sacred, whereas I consider it is the ideas contained within books and the freedom of ideas to be promulgated that should be sacred. An object is an object, and one should have the freedom to look after or destroy one's own property as you see fit.

I always recomend the Penn & Teller flag burning sketch when this topic is raised - I just wish they'd had the balls to actualy burn the flag!

[Madmaili]

Depends on the book.

[Varangian]

If it was a question of survival, I guess I would burn books for heat, beginning with the cheap paperbacks I never intended to re-read anyway. If I have to get rid of books, I sell them or give them away. I try to take good care of them. Burning books as a ideological statement has a strong symbolism, as that is usually an action taken by dictatorships and intolerant groups. It would have to be something especially vile if I were to burn a book as a protest.

[stagman]

I was thinking about this just the other day. I was watching the movie 'The Day After Tomorrow' (at a friends house - otherwise I would have passed). One section in the movie has the few survivors buring the books in the library for warmth. One fellow, I think the librarian, clutches an old babble so it doesn't get burnt.
There is a short exchange of words along these lines:

Why are you holding that book?
- It is the oldest book of the library, an early bible.
But I thought you were an atheist?
- I am but this bible is important for the cultural aspect and stands for reason...

At that point I had to blurt out "bullshit". My opinion is that the babble stands in the way of reason, at least the general interpretation of it anyway. Please tell me if I am on the right or wrong track. In all fairness, the idea behind saving it I can agree with provided it is in the context of culture and history.

Me? It would have been one of the first I'd have burnt, but only for warmth, not as a message of discontent with some ideas portreyed in the book(s) or by the readers of such.

[Rome Existed]

I burnt a bible once. The religious neighbours were pissing myself and my brother and sister right off, so we burnt a bible in front of them.

[Randy Ping]

I still have all my Bibles. I still have my other religious materials, like my interactive bhagavad-gita- and I still love to listen to it, read along (mine has the English translation next to the Sanskrit text) and i still very very much enjoy the art... just incredible stuff really. I think destroying books is wrong, even if yo disagree with it.

[alphabec]

I am categorically opposed to burning or censoring books (unless strictly legally required to do so). There's a big hub bub in my homeland, Wisconsin, because some morons in West Bend want to burn a particular library book. http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/22/wiscon ... index.html
(I can't remember which at the moment--maybe the Perks of Being a Wallflower.)

This is idiotic because copies of the book will still exist, and I hope the library insists on charging the burners to replace the damaged copies. That said, I hope the OP realizes how lucky they are. Not everyone can afford to go out and buy a book that interests them. (In fact big book sellers like Barnes and Noble have very limited offerings.) Not everyone knows how to find the books or information they want beyond B&N or Amazon. For some, public libraries may well be their only viable source of information, so I think its egregious to take information out of the public library in that way. (What's worse lots--most?--people may not be aware of interlibrary loan privileges or be too shy to use them to obtain information not found at their local libraries.)

Ok--enough of my rant...

[animea90]

I can't bring myself to deliberately damage books. Books have always been incredibly important to me.

Though I once ripped the first chapter out of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. In my sleep. I have no idea how that even happened.

I feel like doing the same to the epilogue of the 7th book.

[Goldenmane]

I am categorically opposed to burning or censoring books (unless strictly legally required to do so). There's a big hub bub in my homeland, Wisconsin, because some morons in West Bend want to burn a particular library book. http://www.cnn.com/2009/US/07/22/wiscon ... index.html
(I can't remember which at the moment--maybe the Perks of Being a Wallflower.)

This is idiotic because copies of the book will still exist, and I hope the library insists on charging the burners to replace the damaged copies. That said, I hope the OP realizes how lucky they are. Not everyone can afford to go out and buy a book that interests them. (In fact big book sellers like Barnes and Noble have very limited offerings.) Not everyone knows how to find the books or information they want beyond B&N or Amazon. For some, public libraries may well be their only viable source of information, so I think its egregious to take information out of the public library in that way. (What's worse lots--most?--people may not be aware of interlibrary loan privileges or be too shy to use them to obtain information not found at their local libraries.)

Ok--enough of my rant...

Well, like I said, book-burning is symbolic magic. Just like burning someone in effigy. It's fucking voodoo (as portrayed in the worst sort of shitty popular entertainment). The whole deal with book-burning is to symbolically destroy the ideas/knowledge in the book, with the intention that the actual ideas/knowledge, rather than just one instance of it, will be destroyed. I'm using the term 'symbolic magic' advisedly, not frivolously. Anyway, that sort of behaviour is fucking stupid.

However: what I was also getting at was that there is a flip-side to this, and it actually is just as silly, since it rests on the same predicate. The flip-side is, of course, horror at the thought of books being burned. I'm somewhat prone to it myself, or was until I started thinking about it. I still tend to treat books that I (arbitrarily) deem important with respect, but in all honesty that's decreasing in terms of which books I deem important. Certainly from my own, privileged situation as a citizen of Australia.

Maybe I'm just becoming somewhat cavalier, but I did start wondering why book-burning seems to carry such power. The answer is symbolic magic, which is absurd, and hence the power it seems to have is itself rendered absurd. If you're talking about the last copy of a book, then sure, rescue it from destruction (and here's a key point... rescue it from destruction, be that burning, neglect, small children with crayons, whatever... but burning is the big scary magic version) but if it's one of five million copies and some fuckwit wants to burn it because they think it's evil, then why the hell should I care about that particular book? That sort of shit only becomes problematic when it becomes significantly prevalent behaviour (and then largely only because the fuckwits burning the books are increasing in number).

Would you be horrified if someone burned a copy of Harry Potter and the Philosophers Stone? I wouldn't, not in the current time and place. Those things are fucking ubiquitous. Grab another copy for fifty cents at the op shop. How about War and Peace? Nope, again. Important book (so I'm told, I've never bothered to fucking read it). But I'm not going to be upset if someone burns a copy. How about if someone burned a copy of the Bible? I might actually be a little pissed off, if it was, say, the last surviving Gutenburg (or however you spell it) - but only because I don't like 'the last surviving' of anything ceasing to fulfill the 'surviving' bit of that description. But a regular Bible? Fuck it, there's more copies of that bunch of crap than there are issues of Playboy Magazine. And Playboy has pictures, and arguably has contained more (quantity and quality) decent ideas than the Bible.

What if someone burned a copy of The Greatest Show on Earth?

I'd only be pissed off, I think, if it wasn't their own copy. I'd be really pissed off if it was my copy they were burning, but only because it's mine. Ultimately, I wouldn't really fucking care. I can get another copy.

Anyway, I got to rambling there, so my apologies to every poor fucker who gets sucked in to reading this. Main point is: book burning is fucking stupid, but being horrified at book burning is equally stupid.

[Red_Nucleus]

New Idea - we get our hands on every copy ever printed of 'Special Ray's' version of The Origin of The Species and bury it - thus turning it into fertiliser! I mean we already know the general quality of the man's written word - stands to reason that the paper version will be the same doesn't it? Of course to be properly thorough that will entail the creation of a virus capable of destroying his e-creobabble, and obtaining biohazard suits that will enable us to separate Mr Comfort and his cohorts from decent society. As for holding facilities, I think a triple max SLAM a la Crematoria (prison planet - Chronicles of Riddick, inmates were prevented from escaping by a 700^oc surface temp) would do nicely. Failing that, how about an Antartic ice station?

[feign_ignorence]

I would put a book in the recycling bin before an open flame.

[Aunt Nancy]

Though I once ripped the first chapter out of Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone. In my sleep. I have no idea how that even happened.

I once tried to read the first chapter of Harry Potter and the Philospher's stone. I have no idea how that even happened.

[hackenslash]

Never. Firstly, the simple idea of burning books is abhorrent to me, even when they contain drivel. Secondly, as you say, it's symbolic magic, and surely we don't need magic of any description.

In short, I can see the attraction of such symbolism, but it's not something we should be advocating, IMO. Where does it lead? Fahrenheit 451?

[MotherLodeBeth]

Burning ones own books is ones right. Every September the American Library Association has done Banned Book Week which is about books people have wanted to ban over the years. Including burning books. So I have done banned book displays in libraries, which includes photo of the Nazi's, religious folks burning books.

Its fearas well as self imposed ignorance that causes people to burn books, because they have this idea that the ideas in books will go away. Its talking and debating and sorting the facts from the fiction that we get truth. Will everyone want to believe facts? No. But it doesn't mean we stop trying.

~Beth~

[Varangian]

Burning a book for its ideas or story isn't "magic" - it is a demonstration of force and contempt. "Look, we burn a book you hold dear - that is how much we care for your ideas, and that's how much we care for you." OK, there's a symbolic element - the "cleansing" fire - and it is true that most books are available in the thousands, but it isn't the destruction of the book per se that is the message, but the destruction of the ideas behind it. If one disposes of books by throwing them away or burning them in a bin in the back garden in private, that's ones prerogative, but the public destruction of books is an ideological statement, and usually a nasty one.

[Neil C]

Burning a book for its ideas or story isn't "magic" - it is a demonstration of force and contempt. "Look, we burn a book you hold dear - that is how much we care for your ideas, and that's how much we care for you." OK, there's a symbolic element - the "cleansing" fire - and it is true that most books are available in the thousands, but it isn't the destruction of the book per se that is the message, but the destruction of the ideas behind it. If one disposes of books by throwing them away or burning them in a bin in the back garden in private, that's ones prerogative, but the public destruction of books is an ideological statement, and usually a nasty one.

Interesting topic Goldenmane, well said Varangian !

[Goldenmane]

Burning a book for its ideas or story isn't "magic" - it is a demonstration of force and contempt. "Look, we burn a book you hold dear - that is how much we care for your ideas, and that's how much we care for you." OK, there's a symbolic element - the "cleansing" fire - and it is true that most books are available in the thousands, but it isn't the destruction of the book per se that is the message, but the destruction of the ideas behind it. If one disposes of books by throwing them away or burning them in a bin in the back garden in private, that's ones prerogative, but the public destruction of books is an ideological statement, and usually a nasty one.

But it only works as an ideological statement in that way because of the symbolic aspect, which relies upon (and, I'd suggest, arises from) the human tendency to misattributing causes and effects, giving weight to patterns that are imaginary or mistaken. You can't actually destroy an idea by burning it, or burning a copy of a book that the idea is written in - the symbolism only has the power it does because humans tend to make baseless connections.

To put it another way, burning books only means anything because humans have the capacity (and strong tendency) toward superstition.

It's sticking pins in dolls. Hands up anyone who ever had the slightest difficulty understanding the concept of torturing someone by effigy when they came across it. I certainly didn't. Made perfect sense to my ape brain, even if it is bollocks. The fact that it's superstitious bollocks doesn't mean it's at all difficult to understand. Those sorts of connections are simple and intuitive, like a lot of bollocks. It's why they can have such power.

[jetson]

I love it when religious groups buy up tons of books they don't like for a burning! They increase the demand, more get printed, and the publishers and authors benefit. I suppose the people doing the burning feel so much better, but all they really accomplish from my perspective, is showing how much they despise anything that challenges their beliefs, or their self-righteous morals.

[MotherLodeBeth]

I love it when religious groups buy up tons of books they don't like for a burning! They increase the demand, more get printed, and the publishers and authors benefit. I suppose the people doing the burning feel so much better, but all they really accomplish from my perspective, is showing how much they despise anything that challenges their beliefs, or their self-righteous morals.

Reminds me of when a bunch of Christians demonstrated against the movie The Last Temptation of Christ in the 80's and a movie that would not have been seen by many people, made a lot of money. Call me cynical but I think its all about PR and making money, since they know people will see a movie, read a book etc., but the protestors then believe if only 10% agree with them and send in a donation, the free publicity from the protest will have paid off. Its all about money.

~Beth~

[RuleBritannia]

Depends on the book.

That's everyones justification.

[rikules]

goldenmane.....


another great place to get lots of great books at a MOSTLY low price is/are used books sales at libraries, universities...etc.

check out http://www.booksalefinder.com/


you can get books so cheap that you can burn them for fuel! (kidding)