Guns and large game hunting.

[kiore]

I am an avid hunter, and will hunt nearly every day of the season when not working. I live in the southeastern U.S., so my game of choice is White-tail deer. Muzzleloader season starts this Saturday.

Someone mentioned the .375 H&H mag. A big gun with a lot of knockdown power. However, it also packs a heck of a kick. If your going to flinch everytime your about to squeeze the trigger, I wouldn't recommend it.

Probably me am a fan of this particular caliber but the OP has gone for the .338 which is effectively bigger
louder, recoilier and an all round elephant gun style. Seems be doing ok with it good initial groupings, no reports of broken bones.. But know what you mean a guy i know brought a .375 H&H and then got nervous and asked me to sight it in for him, told him that was a bad idea but did it anyway, he barely used it after that I used it more. He did get a good buffalo (not bison) but with my weatherby 7.62 x 51 running 180gr silvertips (my allrounder).
kiore.

[Darren8306]

I am an avid hunter, and will hunt nearly every day of the season when not working. I live in the southeastern U.S., so my game of choice is White-tail deer. Muzzleloader season starts this Saturday.

Someone mentioned the .375 H&H mag. A big gun with a lot of knockdown power. However, it also packs a heck of a kick. If your going to flinch everytime your about to squeeze the trigger, I wouldn't recommend it.

I haven't tried one, but I got the same advice before buying my little .338 win mag. (I had been considering a larger (?) .300)
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I just read what kiore said about my .338 being bigger...I thought it was smaller. I don't know enough about guns, I guess.

Funny story. When I went out to try it in the prone position, I felt a burn in my scrotum after the first shot. I saw that the spent cartridge was in sight, so not what was burning me, and shot again.
More burning on the second shot told me what happened. I was being pushed back along the ground, and my pants were being pushed up. I am not a lightweight, either.
I think I will stick to kneeling/standing. In these positions, the gun barely recoils, and is a treat to shoot. I think it is because I bought it off a 84-year-old gun enthusiast/guide/outfitter who dialed it in for himself.
It's darn nice.

[kiore]

Darren sorry I meant effectively bigger(recoil wise) , is actually smaller than the .375H&H, but .375's tend to be huge and heavy, while .338 tend to be more normal rifle size. .338 still damn big though and you can use heavy projectiles just not as heavy as the .375 H&H (there's weatherby 375 as well which is different again).
Calibers can be confusing as the naming sytem varies for example the .30 06 is not the size in inches as you would expect but the .30 cal 1906 model and is actually a .308 ( 7.62 x 63mm) but not the .308 winchester/nato, 7.62x51 or the Russian versions 7.62 x 39 (as used by AK47/AKM) or 7.62 x 55 ..
The build of the rifle will reflect on its recoil and accurancy, thus when you see target rifles they tend to be very big while hunting rifles assume you have to carry them.
kiore.

Addit; in the metric naming system the first number refers to the width of the bore eg 7.62 mm and the second number the cartridge size eg 51mm, getting the wrong ammo either doesn't fit at all or results in 'issues'.

[MotherLodeBeth]

Come from an agnostic hunting family here in the west. Hunting in our family is done because we like wild game meat. Would never just go out shooting and killing animals for 'sport'. ~Beth~

[Darren8306]

Come from an agnostic hunting family here in the west. Hunting in our family is done because we like wild game meat. Would never just go out shooting and killing animals for 'sport'. ~Beth~

Different people use 'sport' differently, but I don't go shoot for 'sport' either. We will fill our freezer, and a few others'. I am going to do my best to save the hide. My pal wants the head for his wall (after we take what's useful out) and I am approaching a local artist next week to see if he wants some of the bones for his stock.

[MotherLodeBeth]

Different people use 'sport' differently, but I don't go shoot for 'sport' either. We will fill our freezer, and a few others'. I am going to do my best to save the hide. My pal wants the head for his wall (after we take what's useful out) and I am approaching a local artist next week to see if he wants some of the bones for his stock.

When I use the word 'sport' I mean people who kill animals but not for the meat. Often just for the purpose of stuffing the head for mounting. Now I have NO problem with saving the head to have it processed for stuffing and then hung on the wall. Have a deer head on a wall myself. But to waste the meat is something I cannot get my head around. The hides we give to a friend who tans hides. Bones are given to friends who do wearable art, or have dogs. And we use the eyes and other organs for homeschool science lessons.

~Beth~

[Darren8306]

Different people use 'sport' differently, but I don't go shoot for 'sport' either. We will fill our freezer, and a few others'. I am going to do my best to save the hide. My pal wants the head for his wall (after we take what's useful out) and I am approaching a local artist next week to see if he wants some of the bones for his stock.

When I use the word 'sport' I mean people who kill animals but not for the meat. Often just for the purpose of stuffing the head for mounting. Now I have NO problem with saving the head to have it processed for stuffing and then hung on the wall. Have a deer head on a wall myself. But to waste the meat is something I cannot get my head around. The hides we give to a friend who tans hides. Bones are given to friends who do wearable art, or have dogs. And we use the eyes and other organs for homeschool science lessons.

~Beth~

I hadn't thought of science (imagine that lol)...I was going to offer the heart and liver to a pal to make his cat food, but I might just run it by the high-school science teacher I know. Learning may take precedence over many things (even a hungry cat)

[Darren8306]

Just got back from a day of shooting, and I think I need to learn more about my scope. I did well at 100 yards (hit the silhohette consistently) but at 200 I was missing (short) consistently. May have had the scope dialed in wrong...

I think I will 'sight in' to a range that covers me from 100m and under, since I don't expect to shoot any further than that.

So, clean my toys and off to grocery shopping. Here it is, by the way.


It looks a lot bigger when it goes bang.

[kiore]

Darren, you need to under stand that the bullet begins dropping immeadiately it is fired, so using a scope you need to set it for a range say 100m and measure the difference at 200 and 300 and adjust manually. That's why you might hear people say their zero is 2 inches high at 200. It sounds complicated but most set zero at 200 deadon and mark out the difference for 50 100 300 400 etc, why you need to paractise, dont set your zero too close unless you can really get a feel for it. No closer than 100m otherwise you distance shots will hit the ground before the target.
kiore.

[Darren8306]

Darren, you need to under stand that the bullet begins dropping immeadiately it is fired, so using a scope you need to set it for a range say 100m and measure the difference at 200 and 300 and adjust manually. That's why you might hear people say their zero is 2 inches high at 200. It sounds complicated but most set zero at 200 deadon and mark out the difference for 50 100 300 400 etc, why you need to paractise, dont set your zero too close unless you can really get a feel for it. No closer than 100m otherwise you distance shots will hit the ground before the target.
kiore.

I just got back from getting some advice and I should have left it alone at 200 (zero at 200) and adjusted my aim by the marked number of inches (I zoomed into the label so that you can see what he has marked)


Instead, in my ignorance, I adjusted the dial on the scope by that many marks...anyway, I will now have to learn to sight it in properly...

Which might be easier to do in the ranges I will be using, rather than trying to get it right all the way out to 500 yd.

[Darren8306]

I had a go at the range last weekend, after setting the scope back the way it should have been. I hit the duckie at 200m. Then my sweetheart hit the duckie at 200m. Then our friend hit the duckie at 200m (which was dangling by one chain at that point). I put a few more through it and came back.
My pal has found a rifle to bring along. It is a nice-looking weapon, being a gray Marlin with a stainless barrel, but the really good part is that there is damn near room to throw a kitten down the barrel.

Here is something else you can damn near throw down the barrel...


I think the plastic-looking (teflon?) thingammies begin to spread out the (really quite large) bullet on impact, dumping more joules into it's target.


They really look big. Might sting a bit to fire it. I am glad it's him doing it lol.


If mine wasn't big enough, I think his IS.

[kiore]

Darren, you need to under stand that the bullet begins dropping immeadiately it is fired, so using a scope you need to set it for a range say 100m and measure the difference at 200 and 300 and adjust manually. That's why you might hear people say their zero is 2 inches high at 200. It sounds complicated but most set zero at 200 deadon and mark out the difference for 50 100 300 400 etc, why you need to paractise, dont set your zero too close unless you can really get a feel for it. No closer than 100m otherwise you distance shots will hit the ground before the target.
kiore.

I just got back from getting some advice and I should have left it alone at 200 (zero at 200) and adjusted my aim by the marked number of inches (I zoomed into the label so that you can see what he has marked)


Instead, in my ignorance, I adjusted the dial on the scope by that many marks...anyway, I will now have to learn to sight it in properly...

Which might be easier to do in the ranges I will be using, rather than trying to get it right all the way out to 500 yd.

Good advice, I like to use a big cardboard box as a target for zeroing, fire my groups (of 3) and then adjust, otherwise you might correct on a wild shot and increase the inaccuraccy.
Up down adjustment by eye seems easier than left right adjustment as up down relates to estimated distance. It is also worth practising estimating distances, select an object, predict the distance, say that car is 250m away then pace it out (or laser it) to check your guesses, you will get better quickly, also practice estimating up and down slopes, this tends to mess up your estimation as down slope frequently 'appear' closer than upslope.
You sound like you are having fun, even before you see a bison.
kiore.

[Darren8306]

Good advice, I like to use a big cardboard box as a target for zeroing, fire my groups (of 3) and then adjust, otherwise you might correct on a wild shot and increase the inaccuraccy.
Up down adjustment by eye seems easier than left right adjustment as up down relates to estimated distance. It is also worth practising estimating distances, select an object, predict the distance, say that car is 250m away then pace it out (or laser it) to check your guesses, you will get better quickly, also practice estimating up and down slopes, this tends to mess up your estimation as down slope frequently 'appear' closer than upslope.
You sound like you are having fun, even before you see a bison.
kiore.

I have seen bison - here is the weird thing. On the highway, I can drive up beside one, honk the horn, and it won't even look. In the bush, I am told, they are very 'spooky' and will flee the moment they see you. (depending on the time of year, or how many people have been around)
I also have it on good authority that they can run in snow a meter or more deep as if it was not even there.
I am slowed considerably on my snowshoes. I sure hope I can use brains...speed is not on my side.
I will practice distances as you say, but with only a few weeks left, I might just buy a laser thingamijiggie to do the work...I will have to go look at how much they are...I plan to snowshoe to within 100m of the thing, but I don't want to miss. That would be the worst, to me, is missing and leaving a potentially injured animal out there. Don't get me wrong, I would try HARD to track down anything I hit, but there is open water and overflow all winter in some of these areas, making them inaccessible, and other obstacles, I feel sure.
My plan is to have my bullets placed in the burners, and my back-up hunter aimed for a shoulderblade and have him shoot if the thing tries to leave. I know I would be spoiling a bit of meat by ordering such a shot, but I don't (at the moment) see a better way of keeping the beast from running into the sticks (a hundred meters could mean 2 or 3 more days trying to get it out)

I have a 3' x 5' map of the sanctuary on our kitchen wall, and study it often - even as I type this out.

This is another map which, I am told, can be used to avoid some of the areas of overflow.

To those who don't know, the overflow I speak of looks just like all the rest of the flat snow (at -40C) but has open water under the snow. If you sled over such an area, you could sink your sled in a few feet of water (or yourself!). I would like to avoid that if I can. The only thing you can do when you start to sink is get aggressive with the throttle and try to power out of it.
Not the safest place to go sledding, maybe, but I am not hunting bunnies!
One of my team members found this map with an old skidder trail on it, and it seems to avoid much of the water. I might try to go down there the week before and see what it looks like.


The main hunt groups will go to Falaise Lake, or Boulogne Lake, while I think I will bring my party up to Dieppe lake (staying far away from the other groups)

We have a good fuel estimate (after a few bobbles) and found an oil-drip stove to use. I have 2 out of the 3 toboggans I will need (4 would be even better, but it is good to leave one skidoo as a scout)

Are you sure you don't want to join us, kiore? I might still be able to find you a sled...and Fraser (my next closest neighbour) can't make it.

[kiore]

No, I can't make it, a very kind offer though.
You friend's rifle the 45 70 govt is a classic buffalo caliber from the 1870's, 45cal or really a little bigger means .458 of an inch wide, the 70 refers to how much black powder is pushing it rather than the size of the case as in modern weapons, although I guess he's using modern charge (it's a hornady $$$) and the bullet weight should be over twice that of your rifle, lower velocity though like a very heavy pistol bullet, should be good at 200 metres for a leg breaker to stop a moving animal.
Guess it's a lever action, fun to shoot with one of those, although I much prefer a bolt action myself.
That looks like adventure country indeed, don't know I'd be much help in those conditions, never saw snow till I was 19 and haven't much experience of working in those conditions, you'll be an expert soon enough, that's how everyone starts out.
kiore.

[Darren8306]

No, I can't make it, a very kind offer though.
You friend's rifle the 45 70 govt is a classic buffalo caliber from the 1870's, 45cal or really a little bigger means .458 of an inch wide, the 70 refers to how much black powder is pushing it rather than the size of the case as in modern weapons, although I guess he's using modern charge (it's a hornady $$$) and the bullet weight should be over twice that of your rifle, lower velocity though like a very heavy pistol bullet, should be good at 200 metres for a leg breaker to stop a moving animal.

I hope we don't have to use that option, but it's good to know it is there.

Guess it's a lever action, fun to shoot with one of those, although I much prefer a bolt action myself.

It IS a lever action, and while I have not used one more that a couple of times, I would rather the bolt. I have read that bolt-actions are more accurate than others (except single-shot) but I just like it because my favorite video-game weapons have been bolt-action rifles.
I think if you are a good shot, you can take the time to operate a bolt.

That looks like adventure country indeed, don't know I'd be much help in those conditions, never saw snow till I was 19 and haven't much experience of working in those conditions, you'll be an expert soon enough, that's how everyone starts out.
kiore.

I have spent quite a bit of time out in the snow. Not much operating a sled, but hopefully that will be easy enough. If I get my sled stuck, the only animal likely to be hurt is me, so I am not too worried about it. If I have to spend a few days doing a sled rescue instead of collecting a bison, that's okay with me. Valuable experience all of it.