Somali adulterer stoned to death

[lofuji]

barbaric or what?

lofuji

[Shaka]

Adulterer? The article says nothing of the man or woman being married...

Seriously fucked up. They're going to murder the woman after giving birth and her child will grow up without knowing either parent unless the woman can be rescued.

Ugh..

[jel]

don't forget, this is a religion of peace!

[dinoboy]

That is so sad...



Stoned without any pizza.

[jel]

That is so sad...



Stoned without any pizza.

[stargazerthree]

This nonsense is well past its sell-by-date. Weren't they doing this when Jesus was around? I am rather surprised that a man was stoned. It is the first time I have heard of this happening. Still wrong though. I personally am not against religion, but human rights abuses carried out in its name. This should be condemned for what it is. It is totally unacceptable that anyone anywhere in the world in 2009 should forfeit their life for this - or anything else for that matter. What I find really interesting is the view towards the woman. She will have her baby before she too is executed. Her accusers are presumably against abortion but in favour of the death penalty. Some cognitive dissonance creeping in there, methinks. Wonder if the child will ever be told about this? Sad. Very, very, very sad.

[james1v]

[CJ]

Islam shoots itself in the foot again.

[Electric Sheep]

Islam shoots itself in the foot again.

Islam does not have any feet, just two bloody stumps that they are shooting away at.

But no doubt it will be argued that these are "not true Muslims"

[CJ]

Islam shoots itself in the foot again.

Islam does not have any feet, just two bloody stumps that they are shooting away at.

But no doubt it will be argued that these are "not true Muslims"

Of course. They call themselves Muslims, carry the Quaran, pray to Mecca five times a day but aren't real Muslims

[Strontium Dog]

don't forget, this is a religion of peace!

Stoning isn't mentioned in the Quran, not once. The Quranic punishment for adultery is 80 lashes - not that I am defending that either, but let's be quite clear that stoning people to death for adultery is not Islam.

[Samantha]

don't forget, this is a religion of peace!

Stoning isn't mentioned in the Quran, not once. The Quranic punishment for adultery is 80 lashes - not that I am defending that either, but let's be quite clear that stoning people to death for adultery is not Islam.

No, let's be both clear and accurate. Just because something is not in the Qur'an does not mean it is not Islamic. Making a pilgrimage to Mecca and praying five times a day are not in the Qur'an either - they, like stoning married persons for adultery, are mandated by the Sunnah.

[Strontium Dog]

No, let's be both clear and accurate. Just because something is not in the Qur'an does not mean it is not Islamic.

Correct - the fact that the Quranic punishment for adultery is 80 lashes, and not stoning, means it is not Islamic.

[Samantha]

No, let's be both clear and accurate. Just because something is not in the Qur'an does not mean it is not Islamic.

Correct - the fact that the Quranic punishment for adultery is 80 lashes, and not stoning, means it is not Islamic.

Actually I think you'll find that's 100 lashes, SD. The stoning verses were among the verses which were lost when Mohammed was on his death bed, and in such cases the Sunnah is used for guidance.

Narrated Abu Huraira and Zaid bin Khalid Al-Juhani:

A bedouin came and said, "O Allah's Apostle! Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." His opponent got up and said, "He is right. Judge between us according to Allah's Laws." The bedouin said, "My son was a laborer working for this man, and he committed illegal sexual intercourse with his wife. The people told me that my son should be stoned to death; so, in lieu of that, I paid a ransom of one hundred sheep and a slave girl to save my son. Then I asked the learned scholars who said, "Your son has to be lashed one-hundred lashes and has to be exiled for one year." The Prophet said, "No doubt I will judge between you according to Allah's Laws. The slave-girl and the sheep are to go back to you, and your son will get a hundred lashes and one year exile." He then addressed somebody, "O Unais! go to the wife of this (man) and stone her to death" So, Unais went and stoned her to death.

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc ... 03.049.860

[Strontium Dog]

No, let's be both clear and accurate. Just because something is not in the Qur'an does not mean it is not Islamic.

Correct - the fact that the Quranic punishment for adultery is 80 lashes, and not stoning, means it is not Islamic.

Actually I think you'll find that's 100 lashes, SD.

Opinions seem to differ. These guys appear to be experts, so I'll go with them, but I think it's largely academic.

The stoning verses were among the verses which were lost when Mohammed was on his death bed

How convenient for extremists! "Yeah, just trust us, Mohammed forgot to put this bit about stoning in the Quran, it's legit, honest".

and in such cases the Sunnah is used for guidance.

That would depend on what kind of Muslim a person is. Many go by the Quran, and nothing else, rejecting the hadith etc as perversions of "true" Islam.

[Samantha]

Opinions seem to differ. These guys appear to be experts, so I'll go with them, but I think it's largely academic.

Any version of the Qur'an I've read says 100 lashes, which makes me doubt those guys' expertise, (unless its an error on the web site).

How convenient for extremists! "Yeah, just trust us, Mohammed forgot to put this bit about stoning in the Quran, it's legit, honest".

No, its one of the lost verses, SD. No question of Mohammed forgetting to put it in, its one of the verses recorded in the Sunnah as having been eaten by a goat, (no I'm not making that up!), while Mohammed was on his death bed.

'Abdullah b. 'Abbas reported that 'Umar b. Khattab sat on the pulpit of Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) and said: Verily Allah sent Muhammad (may peace be upon him) with truth and He sent down the Book upon him, and the verse of stoning was included in what was sent down to him. We recited it, retained it in our memory and understood it. Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) awarded the punishment of stoning to death (to the married adulterer and adulteress) and, after him, we also awarded the punishment of stoning, I am afraid that with the lapse of time, the people (may forget it) and may say: We do not find the punishment of stoning in the Book of Allah, and thus go astray by abandoning this duty prescribed by Allah. Stoning is a duty laid down in Allah's Book for married men and women who commit adultery when proof is established, or it there is pregnancy, or a confession.

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc ... l#017.4194

That would depend on what kind of Muslim a person is. Many go by the Quran, and nothing else, rejecting the hadith etc as perversions of "true" Islam.

No, the Qur'an aloners are a tiny proportion of muslims, considered either ludicrous or outright heretical by mainstream muslims, (both Sunni and Shia). For once, I can see the mainstream muslim pov too - how can they claim to take Islam from the Qur'an alone, when the Qur'an doesn't even tell them how or when to pray, fast, or make hajj? Ridiculous.

Its just a shame that all the Sahih hadeeths make the penalty for adultery crystal clear....

'Ubada b. as-Samit reported: Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: Receive (teaching) from me, receive (teaching) from me. Allah has ordained a way for those (women). When an unmarried male commits adultery with an unmarried female (they should receive) one hundred lashes and banishment for one year. And in case of married male committing adultery with a married female, they shall receive one hundred lashes and be stoned to death.

http://www.usc.edu/schools/college/crcc ... l#017.4191

[pcCoder]

From my understanding (which is very limited) an adulterer usually gets stoned to death, but to be an adulterer you must be married, if not it is just lashes. Whether it is part of the Koran or not I don't know, but that seems to be what some of the Islamic countries practice. I still think it is barbaric practice and words can not express the rage I feel when I read about such madness. But then the roots of Christianity aren't any better and there are some extremists who would love to implement things such here in the US.

[Zing]

Sometimes I am not sure just what it is people object to:
a. the death penalty?
b. the crime for which the death penalty is imposed?
c. the means of carrying out the death penalty?
d. the religion of the people who impose the death penalty?
e. a combination of some of the above?
f. all of the above?

[Shaka]

From my understanding (which is very limited) an adulterer usually gets stoned to death, but to be an adulterer you must be married, if not it is just lashes. Whether it is part of the Koran or not I don't know, but that seems to be what some of the Islamic countries practice. I still think it is barbaric practice and words can not express the rage I feel when I read about such madness. But then the roots of Christianity aren't any better and there are some extremists who would love to implement things such here in the US.

That's my understanding too. The article doesn't say if either the man or women are even married. If neither of them are, then they are not adulterer's and the man was murdered over nothing (though regardless, murder is murder) and now the woman may be murdered as well, and her baby will live a life never knowing either parent.

This would be a great time for the UN to actually do something useful and rescue the woman.

[RaspK]

As has already been said, here's the most obviously hypocritical issue: that they will also kill the child's mother, but that she has to wait to be executed after the child's birth.

I might be wrong, but they are already seeding an individual who'll naturally be against such a state, in my opinion.

[Julia D.]

Sometimes I am not sure just what it is people object to:
a. the death penalty?
b. the crime for which the death penalty is imposed?
c. the means of carrying out the death penalty?
d. the religion of the people who impose the death penalty?
e. a combination of some of the above?
f. all of the above?

Well, speaking for myself, the answers to your questions would be:

a. yes
b. yes
c. yes
d. yes
e. no
f. yes

[NineBerry]

What Julia D. said

[pcCoder]

What Julia D. said

Well I'd say maybe on b (the crimes for which the death penalty is used). I object to murder and such. But I don't really object to some of the things that extreme islamic countries pose. (Adultery for instance. IMO it is a victimless crime. I know people will say the person being cheated on i a victim emotionally, but really no more than a person is a very seriously committed relationship that breaks up and suffers a heart break. Also some people may have open relationships).

[Zing]

Sometimes I am not sure just what it is people object to:
a. the death penalty?
b. the crime for which the death penalty is imposed?
c. the means of carrying out the death penalty?
d. the religion of the people who impose the death penalty?
e. a combination of some of the above?
f. all of the above?

Well, speaking for myself, the answers to your questions would be:

a. yes
b. yes
c. yes
d. yes
e. no
f. yes

If your answer to a. is yes, all the other answers are redundant.

[NineBerry]

So, you support the death penalty for some crimes, pcCoder?