Felt god? What nonsense!!

[offert]

There are people who claim to feel god and call that the proof for god. They tell me it can never be proven to atheists
because they do nt believe in god. I am not sure whether they are simply using it to argue or indeed there is some psychological explaination ( they are so much into it that they start getting illusins about it for that. I usually tell them that 'feeling god' is no evidence but they just put on high pitched voices and say:you will never understand. Please let me know your views on this.

[wasp]

People that feel god are touched in more than one way.

[Babel]

I prefer to do the touching myself.

Anyway, it is pretty obvious we can't prove they haven't been touched by something we can't see/hear/smell/prove. But on the other hand, the only way for them to prove anything is proving god actually exists. I'm sure one of the nobel prizes would be taken when that happens.

oh and this

god are touched in more than one way.

[matanui]

People that feel god are touched in more than one way.

It reminds me of people who like country or rap music. I just don't get it!

[Workingspace]

Well, it should come as no suprise to anyone here that one of the faithful might use a subjective experience as evidence of objective reality.

But that is where the real problem lies, I think. Excluding those who don't believe or don't have any reason to believe and they know it, so they use the "I can feel it" argument because they know it is one you cannot refute, there are those who cannot tell the difference between subjective and objective reality.

For these people, "I know god is there because I can feel him" is an actual argument, and I suppose it puzzles them when others want more concrete evidence.

Then again, a lot of these same people ask for 100% proof for arguments against god.

[jel]

i read the title to this thread and for some strange reason thought it was going to be about a god made out of felt (the material). i think i need some more coffee to wake me up properly.

[Animavore]

i read the title to this thread and for some strange reason thought it was going to be about a god made out of felt (the material). i think i need some more coffee to wake me up properly.

So did I.

I know of people who claim to feel God's love.
Personally I think they're just triggering their love hormones in the same way a teenage boy triggers his sexual arousal hormones when he fantasises and/or masturbates to a picture of Megan Fox.

[CJ]

There are people who claim to feel god and call that the proof for god. They tell me it can never be proven to atheists
because they do nt believe in god. I am not sure whether they are simply using it to argue or indeed there is some psychological explaination ( they are so much into it that they start getting illusins about it for that. I usually tell them that 'feeling god' is no evidence but they just put on high pitched voices and say:you will never understand. Please let me know your views on this.

I have seen people go into self induced trances, they have a sort of control over their brain chemistry and exploit this to reach an 'altered state'. How the person interprets what then experience in this state is usually determined by their cultural upbringing and expectations. So if they are Christian they may well say they have had a Christian revelation and 'felt' the presence of God, a Moslem may say Allah. I hope this helps.

[sciwoman]

There are people who claim to feel god and call that the proof for god. They tell me it can never be proven to atheists
because they do nt believe in god. I am not sure whether they are simply using it to argue or indeed there is some psychological explaination ( they are so much into it that they start getting illusins about it for that. I usually tell them that 'feeling god' is no evidence but they just put on high pitched voices and say:you will never understand. Please let me know your views on this.

I have seen people go into self induced trances, they have a sort of control over their brain chemistry and exploit this to reach an 'altered state'. How the person interprets what then experience in this state is usually determined by their cultural upbringing and expectations. So if they are Christian they may well say they have had a Christian revelation and 'felt' the presence of God, a Moslem may say Allah. I hope this helps.

When I was a believer, I felt the presence of god quite often - everything from 'warm fuzzies' to the 'altered state' CJ mentions. At the time I believed in god, so that is who I attributed it to. However, now I know it was either wishful thinking (the 'warm fuzzies') or a something brought on by prolong prayer or worship (the altered state). Give me a few minutes and I could recreate the state now with little more than some deep breathing and some focus.

[Tero1111]

I just learned a new English phrase a few weeks ago: touched in the mind. Seems to refer to thinking you have made such contact. Could not find in dictionary though.

[mblaze]

There are people who claim to feel god and call that the proof for god. They tell me it can never be proven to atheists
because they do nt believe in god. I am not sure whether they are simply using it to argue or indeed there is some psychological explaination ( they are so much into it that they start getting illusins about it for that. I usually tell them that 'feeling god' is no evidence but they just put on high pitched voices and say:you will never understand. Please let me know your views on this.

I've has a similar discussion with others - some who are quite religious. . . . The real question lies in:
a) Did they actually feel god's presence?
b) Did they feel a sense of the numinous?

BTW - numinous = feeling of awe and wonder - a feeling of something greater than yourself

Regardless of being highly religious or an atheist we all feel option b) from time to time. For me, it's that moment when you go outside on a clear night and stare up at the starts and for a moment you might be struck by the enormity of the universe.

The problem is that those brought up in a religious way are essentially programmed to interpret option b) as actually being option a)

i.e. "I had a sense of awe and wonder and that must have been god" - however, it's obviously a poor argument because of the following similar arguments.

- "I had a sense of awe and wonder and that must have be been caused by a neurological stimulus"
- "I had a sense of awe and wonder and that must have been caused by conditioning through my upbringing"
- "I had a sense of awe and wonder and that must have been aliens downloading thoughts into my brain"
etc. etc. - the list goes on

However, a lack of openmindedness leads to the "It was god" type of conclusion. Unfortunate but that's the human brain for you

[Ramonda]

However, a lack of openmindedness leads to the "It was god" type of conclusion. Unfortunate but that's the human brain for you

I don't think anybody can know for another whether they are open minded about their experiences. That is as subjective as the experience that others here are saying the god feelers are using for truth.

I've read of lifelong atheists who have experienced this.

Why should anybody care if the person believes and doesn't bother anybody else. If they are in your face and the suggestion is that they are better, then yes, have a rational discussion. Otherwise why care?

[AtheistMommy]

I have had patients with different mental illnesses, including demenia, that have claimed to feel, see, hear, touch, know and sense LOTS of things that the rest of us (the nursing staff, visitors, sane folks) did not. Whenever someone tells me they felt god, spoke with god, played golf with god ect, I just remind them of my patients, and that I have no intention of debating what they felt, because I deal with enough of that at work. I don't need to prove that they are wrong anymore than I have to prove that my one patients, Mr.X is not really seeing enemy soldiers in our facility, telling him that they've captured his wife. (This is a real patient I have, but of course his last name is not X)

I know that sounds harsh, but after working with crazy people for a long time, I've lost my patience for the same craziness masked as religiousness, and its frightening to see how the people that claim to talk to and get advice from dead historical figures are found to be mentally unfit and put on meds, but people who claim the same thing about god are out in the world roaming around!
I have a cousin that claims god talks to her. She says she actually hears his voice. As far as I'm concerned that is auditory hallucinations and she should not be treated any different than people that hear other voices.

[buddy]

There are people who claim to feel god and call that the proof for god. They tell me it can never be proven to atheists
because they do nt believe in god. I am not sure whether they are simply using it to argue or indeed there is some psychological explaination ( they are so much into it that they start getting illusins about it for that. I usually tell them that 'feeling god' is no evidence but they just put on high pitched voices and say:you will never understand. Please let me know your views on this.

There are psychological explanations for both your beliefs and the beliefs of the theists involved.

Although personal experience is hardcore evidence, for it to be accepted as such the majority of people must have experienced it then it would go past without hindrance or objection. An example being, it was bloody hot today, sure was comes the majority of replies. No need for scientific evaluation or study to tell everybody it was hot, albeit the use of test equipment can tell us how hot it was.

It is through personal experience that we can often share empathy. A mother looses her child and weeps, those who have lost a child (or other loved one) or have thought about how they would feel may have empathy for the mother. Those who have not had a similar personal experience, or, have no empathy for other reasons, will not relate and associate to what the mother is feeling. Just because not everybody in this life has lost a child or a loved one, doesn’t mean what the mother in this case was feeling isn’t real.

Phenomena and data I have collected from motor vehicle and other accident victims, of how the world slows down and everything happens in slow motion, frame by frame instead of the continual motion we are used to leaves me nothing short of astonished. All part and parcel of the survival system is my current belief, the brain is so focused on what is around it, a second apparently seems like minutes which hopefully gives us enough time to protect ourselves or at least minimise the damage. The fact that I cannot emulate this in an experimental format (fiscal constraints) doesn’t in any way suggest that this phenomena isn’t real, too much data to suggest otherwise. The human brain is capable of many things that would blow an atheists mind.

The above is the data on the positive side for the theist. Just because a person cannot feel something, doesn’t mean nobody else can either. The world, the universe does not revolve around any individual or their current belief patterns.

[TBOARDMAN]

i read the title to this thread and for some strange reason thought it was going to be about a god made out of felt (the material). i think i need some more coffee to wake me up properly.

No! I read the OP and felt so stupid cause I thought that too....good laugh there eh!?

[buddy]

There are people who claim to feel god and call that the proof for god. They tell me it can never be proven to atheists
because they do nt believe in god. I am not sure whether they are simply using it to argue or indeed there is some psychological explaination ( they are so much into it that they start getting illusins about it for that. I usually tell them that 'feeling god' is no evidence but they just put on high pitched voices and say:you will never understand. Please let me know your views on this.

On the negative side, we know that chemical and physical impairments can influence the human brain and how it reacts. On top of this, we also know what impact the environment can have, in either multiple, repetitious format or by the power of a single, off the cuff statement if made by a person with enough (positive) power and influence over the person involved. An example of the latter, a mother or father can make a one off, off the cuff statement that they hate gays, when their child turns out to be gay; the child is too scared to tell them because they don’t want their parent(s) to hate them.

The repetitive pattern can also have the same dramatic effect. The person can dwell so much on a subject, their perception becomes unbalanced to the point of becoming distorted. This generally leads first to paranoia, then to the delusional state when paranoid schizophrenia finally sets in.

One of the worst case scenarios for this was Charles Manson, by his own intelligence and the power of associations he made within his own brain, he fully believed John Lennon was sending him personal messages tied into his music. What is worse, he acted on the messages he believed Lennon was sending him, the rest of course is history.

[buddy]

i read the title to this thread and for some strange reason thought it was going to be about a god made out of felt (the material). i think i need some more coffee to wake me up properly.

No! I read the OP and felt so stupid cause I thought that too....good laugh there eh!?

Such is word association for you.

[TBOARDMAN]

i read the title to this thread and for some strange reason thought it was going to be about a god made out of felt (the material). i think i need some more coffee to wake me up properly.

No! I read the OP and felt so stupid cause I thought that too....good laugh there eh!?

Such is word association for you.

I'm sorry? What?

[buddy]

i read the title to this thread and for some strange reason thought it was going to be about a god made out of felt (the material). i think i need some more coffee to wake me up properly.

No! I read the OP and felt so stupid cause I thought that too....good laugh there eh!?

Such is word association for you.

I'm sorry? What?

[offert]

Thanks for answering my question I am sure I will return to this forum later

[pickledheart]

Atheist mommy got me to thinking. What if the question was "heard God?"
It's a scientific fact that there are voices and images passing through the atmosphere all around us.
If you are equipped with the proper devices, you can receive these visions/voices. You all know about radio and television broadcasts(at least there are still voices). So why is it hard to believe that even if chemically induced in the brain, one may receive (audibly) voices? Are you all so skeptical. Have you never been to seance? I don't recommend them. But you all sound as close minded as any religious person ever was.

[hackenslash]

Did somebody say 'Felt God'?

[kaixi]

I totally felt God once. I was stuck in a foreign country, experiencing culture shock and fighting against communication barriers every time I came into contact with someone. The only other person I really related to was a sweet old lady - we talked about everything. Then I found out that she was extremely religious, though in a nonjudgmental way. We somehow ended up on the subject of Christianity, and discussed it at length. She spoke to me in a soothing, low voice, "Did you feel that right now?" "Yeah." And I had, just before she mentioned it, felt a wave of something pass through my mind and body, complete with tingles and fuzziness. "Of course you felt it. That was God. He's reaching out to you."

See? I totally felt God once. God even reached out for me, specifically, because I'm so speshul.

I thought about it a lot while I was there. Then I got onto that plane, rejoined society, and immediately snapped out of it. Pfft! God? Hooray for altered states of consciousness! It was a nice experience, anyway. I figure I'm allowed my one panicky moment of weakness in an otherwise entirely atheistic life thus far.

[no_age]

I felt it too quite often when I was a christian. I would get them in times of worship when I was alone singing or in a group, could be in a service or a small gathering. It comes quickly and you soon realize you're on cloud nine. You become so overwhelmed you're not quite sure what to do, you may cry or feel intoxicated.

One time I saw a lady fall down and when she did she pushed all the chairs around her out of the way. She was laughing hysterically and when someone came to pick her up they too went into the same state and they just rolled around on the floor trying to pick each other up like 2 drunk teenagers.

Now I don't really know what to make of this but I could understand that it may be some type of euphoric rush caused by your emotions being pushed to their limits, and your commitment to believing that god is indeed real. You want to experience him...even if he is not there to prove himself. I think that's what I did anyway, I would want to feel just a little shiver from god just to know he's there.

[Grace Margaret]

See placebo effect:
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=99093
If you really believe in it, you'll 'feel' it, whatever it is.